Episode 61 – Dreaming Forward (Kamwe Kamwe)

Gabrielle Martin: Hello and welcome to Push Play, a Push Festival podcast featuring conversations with artists who are pushing boundaries and playing with form. I’m Gabrielle Martin, Push’s artistic director, and today’s episode highlights body as land, sand as memory, and dreaming forward. I’m speaking with SoKo Jena, choreographer of and performer in Kamwe Kamwe, a Push Festival co-production which is premiering at Push January 27th to 28th, 2026.

On a sand-covered stage, four Zimbabwean dancers move through poles, elastics, and projected images, their bodies speaking what history has silenced. With live vocals that summon the disappeared, Kamwe Kamwe, one by one, transforms dance into testimony, a reckoning on racism, memory, and resilience. Both protest and prayer, it’s a choreography of solidarity rising from the dust.

A graduate of the University of the Arts, Philadelphia, US, and the Dance Trust of Zimbabwe, SoKo Jena is the founder of Jerahuni Movement Factory and Djena Practice, platforms bridging traditional Zimbabwean performance with contemporary artistic expression. Soko’s practice merges tradition, innovation, and political urgency.

Here’s my conversation with Soko.

I’m really looking forward to talking about Kamwe Kamwe and about your practice, and I want to just open up by acknowledging that I am, uh, joining this conversation from the unceded traditional stolen territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh First Nations. Mm-hmm. And Kamwe Kamwe moves through histories of erasure and resistance, and I think about how those stories echo here and the role of the body, song, and story to hold memory and make space for repair.

I would love to hear where you are joining this conversation from. 

SoKo Jena: Um, so m- currently I am in, um, uh, Brazil, and, uh, also too, it’s very interesting because I am, um, uh, uh, in Itacare, and, uh, this, uh, kili- a- and I am in this space that is a quilombo that is actually, like, the, the space where all, like, the slaves and the Black folks were, uh, uh, uh, living.

And so this is, like, very interesting too because for me it’s not a coincidence. It’s like, yeah, it’s, um, it’s my right to be there, and it’s the work that took me there because that is, um, what the work is and what the w- work is, uh, carrying. Uh, so, um, yeah, I am in Brazil right now, and I am moving between Norway and, um, Germany and Zimbabwe and also too everywhere else in

the world. Yeah. And everywhere else too in the world. But I would say that I come from Zimbabwe. Yes, I am a Zimbabwean 100%, and, uh, I am an Anish, Anishinabe

100%. And then so, uh, Kamwe Kamwe, i- uh, i- it translated in English is, uh, one by one, but, um, Kamwe Kamwe means, uh, um, it, it, it… well, it, it comes as a proverb of, uh, Kamwe Kamwe Mwana Wembudzi Harasiki, which means step by step a, a, a, a, a child or a kid of a goat never gets lost. Uh, and to me it speaks about, um, endurance, migration, resistance, and how collective strength, uh, is formed through individual, uh, steps.

And, uh- But the first seed of the work came, uh, from witnessing, uh, the silent journeys that the bodies, uh, carry migration stories, histories, uh, of oppression and, um, and, uh, the quiet strength, uh, uh, of communities that keep moving. Um, I began, uh, translating, uh, these ideas through breath, uh, grounded movement, repetition, uh, and, uh, the choreography started as a study of weight, uh, how to carry, how to fall, how to rise, and it slowly evolved into a ritual of, uh, collective and resistance.

But also, too, it was, uh… it’s true that, uh, uh, for me, what made this even more magical and beautiful was when I started, uh, thinking about Kamwe Kamwe  was during, uh, in the era of COVID-19. Uh, because also, too, it’s true that, um, uh, people in Zimbabwe and also, too, I noticed in African regions, uh, people were starting to disappear one by one.

Uh, and the governments were also, too, um, blaming everything on, uh, on COVID-19, but actually they were using that as a tactic to abduct people, um, and, uh, p- killing people, torturing people. Uh, uh, uh, so, so, so then, uh, I felt this, uh, agency, uh, that, oh Yeah, so a- and then this was, like, the very worst time if you were, like, an activist while, uh, you were in Zimbabwe and when people, like, really know who you are and then, yeah, uh, and then you are done because they were just coming to abduct you and never found again.

We have people like Itama- Itai Dzamara who got abducted, I don’t know, maybe 10 years, uh, later until now. His body is never found. No one knows what happened to this guy. And even other people that, too, are still in Zimbabwe that got abducted and then after when they were found, now they’re, like, silent.

They don’t speak anything, uh, because they were really silenced and their voices were taken, were taken away from them, uh, from them. And this is how I came with Kamwe Kamwe. 

Gabrielle Martin: I have so many more questions. Thanks for sharing that. I’m wondering, like, you also have a history of political work, right? I mean, I’m just thinking about, um, Dakam, The Tower of Silence.

I’ve only had the chance to see most of your work on video unfortunately, but still through video it really, like, the power of it comes through and it’s is really translated even across that digital form. Um, yeah, so I, I’m wondering if you can speak a bit more about that. I mean, I know, like, um, your, in your work body and voice are vessels for both spiritual and political expression.

So maybe you can talk a bit more about how you navigate the sp- space between those realms, um, and yeah, and, and how those converge in, in performance for you. 

SoKo Jena: All the work is, uh, a continuation of, um, an, uh, an inquiry into land, ancestry, and displacement. Uh, Tower of Silence, like, it, it’s very difficult to find silence when, uh, you, you hear a, um, a Muzungu which is a white person or which is whiteness, uh, coming and saying to you, for example, like what really pushed me to create Dakam is the statement that was, um, was said by this, uh, minister in, um- In, uh, South Africa parliament that maybe I have to put Black polish so that I can become Black.

And like they are like saying these things, but they don’t actually know and really think what they are talking about. Because also too, this is why in the end I like, um… I’m s- really starting to think about sometimes maybe the smartest people are the dumbest people, too.

Yeah, then you- 

Gabrielle Martin: Especially the people who think they’re smart. That’s… 

SoKo Jena: I, I’m, I’m sorry I said it, but yeah, because how can, how can, um, someone who gets voted to represent a humongous, um, crowd of people and even suggest a thought that maybe I should put Black polish and then maybe you, you start to recognize, you recognize that I am Black.

But no. Uh, that is like, as racist as, I don’t know. It’s like I’m saying, well, maybe I have to put white polish so that I look white, and then maybe you will start to understand what I’m saying. So yeah. So always, yes, my work it’s, uh, too political, and it’s not always, um, uh, politics outside of Zimbabwe, uh, or, or, or wherever.

But it’s, it’s actually the politics that is imposed on the Black body. Because to the Black body, it has so much history, and it has carried and endured so much. And until now, it’s still carrying so much trauma, and it’s still, um, and it’s, it’s still not free. It’s not s- it’s still not free at all. We can, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, talk about the Black, uh, lives men, uh, met, um, George Floyd.

Everyone, like, all those things have been there, and they happened before and before and before. And still now and now and now and now, they are still unfolding and even more worse, even more worse. And, uh, everyone can see, uh, you know, what is happening. And yeah, of course, yeah, okay, I will not go there to, uh, this other guy.

But yeah, blood, land, because my body, this is my land, and this is where I feel I am free. This is what I own, and this is what I carry with me and move with me. And in this space, and this is where I am free because anywhere else, I think, uh, there’s no freedom at all. There are just pockets of sovereignty, pockets of, I don’t know.

I don’t know. But this is, yeah Yeah, and I don’t know- Yeah … if answered your question, 

Gabrielle Martin: too. Yes. No. Uh- Thank you. Thank you. I, I, um, that body as land is really, um, poignant. Um, also I’m curious if you define your work as also being a spiritual practice, um, and how you… That was kind of the final part of my question is how those things converge in performance for you.

SoKo Jena: Yeah, I started, uh, developing Jenna Practice in, um, I think it’s 2020 or even, or even maybe 2016. Maybe I should say 2016. Um, but, uh, Jenna Practice, the practice is a way of honoring what I inherited while, uh, still dreaming forward. And, uh, because in Zimbabwe, um, the, the traditional performance, the music, the dance, and the, and spirituality are not separate disciplines.

These are one body. And, um, it takes, uh, that philosophy and, uh, and places, uh, it in and, uh, dialogue with contemporary dance, technology, and global, uh, Black thought. And also, too, it’s very interesting because, um, my entrance into movement is because of my, uh, grandparents because I remember vividly that my grandparents used to make each and every one of us in my family, uh, sit down every Friday without any, um, a- any fail.

We would clap for them and sing for them, and they would dance for us, and they would teach us how to dance. 

Gabrielle Martin: Wow. 

SoKo Jena: So, so this is automatically something that already I, I, I grew up, I, I grew up within, and even if they passed, but I still carry that. I carry my grandfather. I carry my grandmother. And also, too, I carry this then, this Okot totem, which also, too, is very interesting because then this, too, is I inherit this from my father.

Can 

Gabrielle Martin: you explain a little bit the Soko totem? Can you explain a little bit more about that? 

SoKo Jena: So, so, so Soko is like a silverback, is a silverback or, or a, a baboon. Like le, le grand le baboon. And then in Zimbabwe, these folks, this totem, this tribe carries massive, massive intelligence and massive, um, um, uh, cosmology through the, um, uh, Zimbabwean, uh, history.

So they have two, they are songs, and two, they are messengers, and they are tasked with, um, teaching the tradition. They are tasked with preserving the tradition, and they are tasked with the challenging and, like, really, really also, like, um, taking the bull by its horns and like, “Yeah, no, you don’t do us this.

We also have been to school, so what are you talking about?” So, so yes, my body carries this, and, um- Yes, it’s not about re-enacting tradition, but, uh, also re-aminating it, allowing, uh, for example, the songs, the, uh, traditional songs. Um, yeah, because also too, this is what is in the Jena practice because I’m also trying to change how the mbira instrument, which is the, um, traditional instrument in Zimbabwe that they use to conjure the ancestors and then connect with the ancestors.

And also too, what I’m trying to do is opening the space of this instrument in this practice so that it’s accessible to everyone if then– even if they are not Shona. Um, yeah, the, uh, ancestral cosmologies and ritual gestures to, uh, meet electronic sound, yeah, which I’m always, uh, improvising and, uh, finding new movement, new languages.

Um, uh, and also too, on the language is very important because, um, because the, uh, Shona is very, is, is very, yeah, I don’t know. It’s, it’s like, yeah, I don’t know why, uh, we actually like speak English in Zimbabwe, but, yeah. That is another thing. It’s the colonial language. But also too, it’s true that the only way that we defeated the British it is because of the language.

They didn’t– They couldn’t understand the codes, how people are speaking the codes, um, in the Shona. And two, the language itself too, and even if Jena means white But it’s a space of cleansing and not white as white as the other and white as whiteness. So that is the practice. 

Gabrielle Martin: Mm. Thank you for sharing that.

Um, I wanna circle back to talking about Kama Kamwe. Mm. So… ‘Cause, you know, we started… There’s so- been so much you’ve shared. There’s so much richness in what you’re sharing. You had mentioned, you know, the, what kinda sparked this, the kind of political moment, um, disappearance of people. In our conversations also prior to this, you’ve talked about, you know, some of the choices around lighting, um, being particular to, like, h- how you’re working with darkness in terms of the dramaturgy, as a dramaturgical expression of, um, setting the kinda stage for that, the story.

Um, and also the sonography, the sand, elastics, projected imagery. These create such a charged and poetic space. I would love to hear you talk about the symbolism of these materials and the process behind incorporating them, the lighting choices, the archival material as well into the visual world of the piece.

So yeah, uh, d- basically around the visual, the visual world and, and those choices to date, even though knowing that the piece is still in, in development. 

SoKo Jena: The sand is, uh, the sand is memory. Every time when I see sand, it reminds me, uh, how I grew up. And, uh, also too, it informs me what I was before, uh, I was colonized and actually being called African.

Because, uh, uh, African came after when the people got colonized. But before So when I see the sand, it reminds me that I am still before that. Because in Zimbabwe, in Zimbabwe, no one is talking about Africanness. No one is talking about Blackness. No one is talking about whiteness. Because I think, uh, the people understood this, and they have surpassed this thing already.

And we understood that and know that we are still what we are even if colonization happened, even if I’m speaking, uh, Elizabeth’s, uh, language. Uh, but yeah.

It’s, uh, yeah, it’s, uh, it’s how, how it is. But the sand, it holds footprints, my father’s footprints, my mother, my grandfather, um, my grandmother. How I grew up and also too, uh, how I was listening to their stories when they were telling me what, uh, the British did to them because also too, they were disappearing one by one.

They were disappearing one by one. Kamwe, kamwe. Everyone, everyone disappearing one by one, and they didn’t know, um, w- what, what was happening. Um, uh, what ha- what was ha- happening to their, um, other, other Black folks. Um, the elastics, yeah, it’s an extension of the Black body because the Black body is elastic, and you can try to break the elastic, but yeah.

And like you try to break the b- the Black body, but yeah. You know what that is. Uh, because the Black body on itself is very elastic. And like what I said before too, it has enjoyed, endured a lot of trauma, a lot of violence, a lot of violence. And, and can you believe this? Like, uh, if, uh yeah, like this is also too what I find, like, very fascinating to hear that the Vikings are, like, now, like, the most peaceful continent.

They’re like number one peaceful people on Earth. And

it’s the Vikings, the most violent, and now

Uh, like the most . That is very interesting. To me, this is very interesting because I’m also too always trying to find and, and, and, and challenge and question, uh, uh, what happened, what changed. And also too, uh, I– and then I am very, uh, grateful, um, to have, uh, the, um Um, the Zimbabwe, um, archival, uh, museum, uh, helping me to figure out if I ask, even if, even if there are limitations.

Because true, this is true, there are limitations. They only give me, um, what they think is, uh, what I should get. That- 

Gabrielle Martin: Mm-hmm. Interesting … 

SoKo Jena: this is, this is very true because, um, yeah, because also, too, in Zimbabwe there’s this thing that they call censorship. So if you are an artist, you have to have this censorship certificate that even if you want to release a song, you have to take the song to them, and then they look at the lyrics, and then they are like, “Yeah, okay, this is good that you can do the thing.”

But no, but that is just killing the artist. But also, too, that is a way of them to scout who, who is the opposition and, and, and the stuff. So of course if you then you are in Zimbabwe, because of course I’m not gonna, uh, try to be another Martin Luther King. I don’t want to have a gunshot and leave my kids, um, fatherless and stuff.

No, I’m not gonna do that. So what I come with and propose is intelligence and because, yes, dancers are intelligent beings, thinkers, massive thinkers, invite them to the space and ask them what they feel, and they have to put the words on their own. So I don’t give them the context because otherwise they hold me accountable.

I can do that in Europe and everywhere else and give context, but in Zimbabwe this is very, 

Gabrielle Martin: very- I was gonna ask you how you’re navigating that. Yeah … 

SoKo Jena: very problematic because, uh, very problematic because you don’t know, you don’t know what will happen. And which also, too, I think this is the reason why, um, this is very difficult to find funds from Zimbabwe because when they read the actual proposal and see what is actually asked of them and then they’re like, “Yeah, okay, if we, if we, uh, fund this work, this probably will put us in a different space And I, I made my peace with that.

I made my peace with that. I know that I’m bad, but I think I am bad-ass.

So yeah. 

Gabrielle Martin: What a dance to navigate that. That’s, yeah. Something that artists here don’t have to deal with to the same extent by any means. So can you talk about how Conway, Conway connects or departs from your other work? I mean, you spoke a bit about the themes, like the key thematics. Um, but maybe you can just go a little bit deeper into that, into the kind of like the, the transformation that you’ve g- gone through from maybe like your first piece of choreography to Conway, Conway in terms of how you’re, how you’re, um, interpreting or in conversation with those themes.

SoKo Jena: Yeah. Um, uh, this is, uh, um, a very, uh, interesting one because I think, uh, the first solo that I created was, uh, called, uh, Chirorodziwa, and maybe I’m thinking this was in like 2009. I think this was my first work. Chirorodziwa, and it’s the sleeping pool. It’s translated as like the sleeping pool in English.

And then this, uh, this actually, this space is actually a Chinoyi cave. Chinoyi Caves in Zimbabwe. There is like Chinoyi. It’s like a, a township, and then there’s actually caves, which is also, too, a tourist attraction. But, um, the keepers of this space are the soko, is the baboons. So when you get there, it’s always surrounded by the baboons, with baboons.

It depends who you are because most of the people, they get chased out with the baboons. But if you are… And then you are like passing by and actually having like a dialogue and like you move and they do their thing So this was my first work. Because also too in this space, this is where our people, uh, the British fell into the thing trying to chase the Shona people to murder them, and they couldn’t figure out where they went, and then they drowned also too in this thing.

And then also too what is, uh, also interesting is this water is traced all the way to go to Tanganyika, to Tanzania. The same fish, the same water crosses all the way to there, and they still see the same thing, which means also too it’s true that, um, whatever is happening is drinking from there and moving out, or it’s, uh, drinking from somewhere else and coming to there and then moving out.

So it’s very interesting too, because this space is a very sacred place. Because in Zimbabwe, if there’s drought, if there is, um, a famine or whatever is happening, the leaders of the country, they go to this space and then perform their rituals, asking for the rains, asking for water, asking for solutions.

So it’s, like, very sacred. And then, uh, it has different parts now that they are blocked, uh, like tourist parts. Mm. And then it has different parts that if, uh, if you are like, yeah, if you are like, uh, full, full on and the spirit is like there, like you, like people go there and not at 

Gabrielle Martin: all. 

SoKo Jena: But also too, the scheming, inviting of the water when it’s blue and like you, “Oh, I want, just want to jump in there and, and like, and like soothe myself and sitting in there.”

But not really understanding and knowing what is underneath where you- if you jump in there, what you are going to, um, uh, encounter. And this is what happened to me. Because I jumped in there and I was like, “Yeah, these are my people. I’m gonna go there.” And then after, when I went there, and then everything changed.

And then everything changed because then I could see the political part about it. I could see the social part of, about it. I could see and hear too sound and speaking because, yes, I am 100% animist. 

Gabrielle Martin: You do so much to set the stage to facilitate, um, movement, like in the studio, but mo- a movement in Zimbabwe, um, with the Jerahuni Movement Factory, with Jenna Practice.

Mm-hmm. And I just w- want people to have a chance to understand a little bit more about the important force that Jerahuni Movement Factory is in Harare on the, in the art scene. Um, and so I’m, just to kind of… I’m wondering if you can leave us with that, a little bit more of an understanding about your company’s role in cultivating contemporary dance and, and interdisciplinary practice in Zimbabwe.

SoKo Jena: Um, yeah. Uh, so, uh, Jerahuni Movement was, uh, born out of necessity. And I think, uh, this was in 2012 when I, uh, decided to, uh, establish this, uh, because also to remember my practice, uh, was at, uh, the National Ballet of Zimbabwe. And I hope that this speaks volumes to you, that it was a British thing and strictly ballet.

So I endured the ballet for like three years. In the morning, in the afternoon, in the evening, like pills every day for three years. And the Zimbabwean culture, I think we were doing maybe Thursday Yeah, I think maybe Thursday alone. And then anywhere else in the day is ballet, is, uh, tap, is modern jazz, is like, yeah.

So, so where do I fit in this curriculum? And this was the, this was, uh, this was the question. But I think, uh, I think I, uh, built this out of necessity, uh, because also too, there is, uh, so much talent in Zimbabwe, but there is very few structures that support, uh, contemporary dance, whatever that means. Um, and then so what I started to do is I started to create a home actually for myself and my body that I can experiment, um, without any judgment, without anyone policing me.

And then after that, and then I opened the space to people in the community. And then until now, yes, we offer free, uh, free training to anyone who thinks that, uh, they love to move. Because too, it’s very true that, um, uh, JMF is at the heart of the ghetto in Mbare community. No one is, uh, have mon- has money to come and like, “Oh, yeah, I have a dollar.

I want to come and take a class.” No. And actually too, what is also too interesting is the space that we use, of course, we have an agreement with the, uh, with the council that we can use this space. But the space is a community hall. Anyone, everyone can just come in there. Sometimes when they are doing their food aid, they come and they were like, “Yeah, okay.

Do you think you can go out and start rehearsing outside?” And then we are like, “Yeah, okay. We are gonna practice outside,” because they want the space. And then they start to do their USA food aid thing.

Yeah. And then we go out, so also too, it’s community like that. So and then we just practice outside. When they are done, if they don’t find any space for us, we continue doing, working outside in the field or anywhere. And also too, I think this is how we attracted, um, also, uh, a lot of young folks and then they started to see, oh, okay, what is this?

This is interesting. And then they started to come in space. And then so until now, yes, uh, we are doing this. And then too- What we are doing, um, we are getting into the special needs sectors in the special needs schools And we are also, uh, giving, uh, movement as therapy. We tried also to do, uh, movement as therapy as a, at a, a psychiatric.

And then, yeah, well, it didn’t go, uh, as much, but at least we were glad that I think we got one or two people got out, and they were, uh, still chasing us. They’re like, “Yeah, I want to dance.” And they are, like, kind of like normal, uh, whatever that means. But also, too, this is, this is, this is, uh, what we are trying to do.

This is what we are trying to do. And, um, yes, we have zero support. We have, yeah, so everything that we are doing is out of the heart, out of the heart, out of love, and giving back to the community. That’s basically it. 

Gabrielle Martin: Thank you so much, Soko, for the generosity in sharing about your practice, about the, um, also the breadth of your practice, the community work, the movement, the political work, the spiritual work, the, you know, the work with form, all of that.

Thank you so much. It’s been such a pleasure to talk to you. 

SoKo Jena: Thank you