Episode 62 –  The Heart Pulse

Gabrielle Martin: Hi, and welcome to Push Play, a Push Festival podcast featuring conversations with artists who are pushing boundaries and playing with form. I’m Gabrielle Martin, Push’s artistic director, and today’s episode highlights heart pulse, gut connection, and animism. I’m speaking with Lara Kramer , the artist behind Remember That Time We Met in the Future, which is being presented at the Push Festival January 28th to 29th, 2026.

Lara Kramer is a performer, choreographer, and multidisciplinary artist of mixed Oji-Cree and settler heritage. Here is my conversation with Lara.

Before we jump into our conversation, I do wanna ground, uh, us. I wanna acknowledge, um, my place here as an uninvited guest on the unceded traditional and ancestral territories of the Squamish, Musqueam, and Tsleil-Waututh Nations. Um, and just to share a little bit more about what I’m thinking about how my thinking around Land Back has been, like, informed, uh, by the Yellowhead Institute’s Land Back course, and their framing of Land Back as more than justice, more than restitution, about our collective future, about survival for all of us, and the continuation of life, um, through indigenous land resource management and, and ontologies.

Um, and you are… What would you like to say about where you are- 

Lara Kramer: Yeah … and where you’re coming into the conversation? So I’ll start by introducing myself, saying, Aaniin, boozhoo. Zara Cramer ndishnikaaz. Waasano-dej Nimikwe ndaaw. Uh, Waabizheshi doodem. Um, so I am, uh, of mixed heritage, Anishinaabe, Oji-Cree through my mother, and my father comes, um, from settler heritage.

I am living as a guest in Tiohtià:ke Montréal. I’ve, I’ve been situated here for, uh, just over 20 years. Um, I’m a mother, um, of two, two children, and yeah, I’m, I’m here, um, in my home. I mention it’s, like, a little bit, uh, rainy, cool weather. And, yeah, this is the terr- uh, like, Montréal, uh, Tiohtià:ke, um, the Kanien’kehá:ka Nation has been the custodian of these lands and waters here.

Um, so acknowledging that. And yeah. 

Gabrielle Martin: Thank you. And I’m just… I’ve appreciated so much knowing you and following you, you know, m- mostly peripherally, but a- across time and space. Like, I realize it’s, uh, about 20 years now since I started at the Concordia Dance Department, and you were in the year ahead of me, and just kind of starting to know a bit about your practice at that point in time.

Mm-hmm. And I have such strong memories of seeing your work, uh, Fragments in 2009, and I remember images from that work. I remember how I felt coming out of the theater and just, um, you know, just being really moved by the depth of the content, uh, you were working with, and also your, like, embodied, the embodied form that it took.

And I remember feeling really excited to follow what would be next from you. Um, to, like- 

Lara Kramer: That goes so far back. 

Gabrielle Martin: Yeah, to 10 years later re-encountering… I mean, I’d seen some of your work- You know, in that early days period in Montreal, and then, and then like 10 years later re-encountering your work by chance in 2019 in Edinburgh.

Um, oh yeah, and in that time as well, outside of the arts world, working at a Pilates studio together. 

Lara Kramer: Oh, yes. 

Gabrielle Martin: For a brief moment in time. 

Lara Kramer: Yeah. 

Gabrielle Martin: Yes. Yeah. Um, or not so brief, but, um, feels brief now, like almost- Yeah … 10 years ago, uh, or forward. And yeah, and then now being… You know, having the privilege to follow your work more closely through Push.

So I am truly thrilled that we’re able to, um, host, uh, this work, uh, Remember That Time We Met in the Future at Push 2026. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Lara Kramer: Mm-hmm. 

Gabrielle Martin: Thanks for being here. 

Lara Kramer: Thank you so much. Yeah. 

Gabrielle Martin: My first question is talking about Remember That Time We Met in the Future. So you’ve described it as both an expansion of your embodied practice and a transmission of mino ode, or good heart.

And can you speak about mino ode, what that means in this context- Mm-hmm … how it moves through the work, through the bodies, the sound, and the landscapes you’re creating? 

Lara Kramer: Yeah. So, um, mino ode was a sort of a first, uh, seed of a idea, um, maybe a way of, of being and connecting. It, it was bridging, um, sort of a,

I want… I say a multitude of artists, but really at the core collaborators, um, and performers. I was in a period of time where I was, you know, I, I’d been doing quite a bit of solo practice, and I wanted to bring together, um, some indigenous artists and really share with them a little bit of, I wanna say, like the, the methodology, the approach of my practice.

And, um, just through conversations with, with my mother, um, Ida Baptiste, who’s also a language carrier, a knowledge keeper. Remember we w- the mino ode came up ’cause I, I was, I was telling her I wanna work with the, the heart space, the heart pulse, um, and h- a- as a real seed of an idea of, of, I guess I wanna say it’s like an invitation to, to this interior listening within, within our own, um, bodies, our own vessels, but as well as how does that, um, also reach outwards and expand outwards with all that we’re, we’re interrelated with.

So, you know, the, the heart, that heart space of even of Mother Earth or, uh, the intricacies of, of it, uh, in land and different territories. And so really I, I think of it as, um, yeah, an expanded, um, quite expansive, um, I wanna say- I don’t know. It’s not, it, it’s not just value, but it, it’s, it’s a, it’s a way of, of connecting, um, a way of, um, being.

It encompasses, you know, uh, c- like cultural world views. Um, but yeah, Minodaa is really for me this, um, this seed of, of, uh, is, is

Gabrielle Martin: Fully embodied mind, body, spirit, grounding and connection and clarity of like the space you’re inhabiting. Yeah, on all those levels that that would be so critical. And then yeah, how are you gonna communicate? I, I’m really… It’s been really interesting to see the transmission, um, recently with J’net Kotoaich in your work.

Um, such an incredible interpretation or I would say interpretation is probably the wrong word, like a- Mm-hmm … existing within the world. Um, and I’m so, you know, just the little bit I’ve seen from the work in progress of this work, it’s a very, um, it’s very clear that everybody is connected in the same state, and that that state is really critical to- Yeah

the work. 

Lara Kramer: Yeah, absolutely. And I think there’s, you know, in, in… I mean, I can think back to like even just the early, early days of, um, I think sharing my desires of like why, why connecting to heart space felt so, so important. Um, even just that i- in our practice as, you know, both just human beings, but artists, creative beings with expression, how, um, that space feels like such a strong anchor of, of deep listening.

And so sometimes we would just have these, these… I feel like I would just carve out time to just be like, “Okay, we’re gonna, we’re gonna listen inward to that, that space.” You know, it’s, um, you know, I can… I, I have times in life of where, where that is maybe something that is, um, you know, offered through… You know, I’m just thinking of like being, um, in my family’s territory and, and that’s just like you’re, you’re in that deep kind of listening, um, with the trees, with the, with the ice, with the sky world.

Um, but in studio we, we are, um, often in these practices that are… Maybe there’s a, a challenge to kind of go deeply inward that way, and so I think that in itself was already felt quite like this is, this is, um, a moment to conne- I guess too I could also give a bit context, since we were just sort of coming out of, of, of that COVID period and I was, you know, engaging in space and I was like this also feels like, um, an important system of, of like to connect to our heartstrings, you know?

Then the practice of stillness and silence and, and really, um- feeling inward. What is, what is that practice of listening? And I think that is such a foundation, um, inside of the work. I think also what became prevalent was also how even in that space of a pulse of, of a, a heartbeat or breath or how we even, um, understand that, that life force that, that we’re connected to, um, it, it evokes such a- Uh, I don’t know.

I think I’m, I wanna say the word is, like, there’s something really exciting and full encompassing that it, it, it also suggests it’s like a, a, a time travel, right? So this reach into our, our past and, and, and that notion of pulse is also reaching into the future, right? That heart pulse. And so I think that for me was already like, ooh, the journey is just, like, expansive here.

Um, yeah. 

Gabrielle Martin: Yeah. And much of your work is rooted in intergenerational knowledge. Um- Yeah … you know, fragments and several other works, um, engaging with legacies of the residential school system. And in this piece you gesture toward future memory, indigenous futurisms. How do you navigate the line between remembrance and futurity?

What does it mean to choreograph from that temporal in-between space? 

Lara Kramer: Yeah. I mean, I think you just said at the end, the temporal space. I think that for me, um, is maybe an entry point into, um, just understanding further, um, that the reach and just exactly what you described, this, this notion of, um, like connection to, uh, the generations and future generations.

I feel like temporality is such a, um, an important… I wanna say it’s not just a state of being, but it’s sort of this like i- it- it- it’s a pacing, it’s, um, you know, there can be something too with, with when, when we’re in, in an embodiment practice, um, in our, our creative being, um, with a, like, slower temporality or something that suggests a decelerated temporality.

Like as I mentioned, like the, the, the importance of the stillness and silent will, I find, become kind of like a, maybe a, I don’t know, I’m just like piecing this together, like the, a launching pad in a sense for temporality to, to shift. You know, when we, when we really take that time to slow down and to tap into these other rhythms, um, I, I feel like for me that there’s then this, this space to, to expand sort of that, that notion of presence.

So presence being not just in the, the, uh, immediacy of, of our being, but, um, that slower temporal pacing I feel allows- Those connections, those, those generational connections to really be, be felt, to be, um, present. 

Gabrielle Martin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And the title of the work encapsulates that so beautifully, Remember That Time We Met In The Future.

Lara Kramer: Yeah. Yeah. 

Gabrielle Martin: And yeah. The And that temporal space, like that space that you’re creating for the artist in creation, is that deeply tied to the kind of durational nature? Like, I feel like you really, you build a world and then you really- Mm-hmm … like expand it, stretch it, live in it- 

Outro : Mm-hmm … 

Gabrielle Martin: and, and it’s like, yeah, and really inhabit it in this fulsome way that feels durational even though, like in the best sense of the wor- word, even though the work is often, you know, a typical evening length work.

Lara Kramer: So I guess maybe to where this comes from, like I, I think, like I, I know what I, I, I say and the language I use when I’m offering a, a certain, um, maybe access or guidance to, um, yeah, placing a, a, a, an importance on something that’s more durational base. I think I, you know, a lot of it is tied into connection to the senses, so having this, building a more, um, sensorial awareness to the environment around.

Um, and that also extends into like the relationality. There’s a lot of materiality in my work, um, and those materialities have, have like a sonic voice. And so that, that place of relationality between, um, being and materiality, um, and then also body and body in space, like for there to be a, like kind of this receptive, um, connection and listening, it, it, it’s far too complex for it to be fast at the beginning, you know?

So I think the durational pacing allows for that, that deep listening and, um, I wanna say connection to, to voice, you know? And so there’s this sort of a, um, approach that when we start to introduce not just, um, connection to our sensorial system and how it’s, um, maybe activated or, or as I said kind of more in this acute listening, um, that also extends into, uh, the materials and, you know, not viewed as just objects or, or, or props, but really having animacy and having, um, this yeah, this, this potentiality of, of like the relationality building.

And so this whole system, um, like the way it, my understanding of the way it, it works is that- Yeah, the, that, that kind of durational pacing is, I think, what starts to allow those, those multi dialogues to exist and build and, and, um, in some ways I wanna say flourish, you know, uh, uh, in their creative expression and the storytelling.

Gabrielle Martin: Is that what you call the hollowing feeling in the gut? Or is that something else? 

Lara Kramer: Oh, I feel like that’s something, you know, that I… Yeah, I guess I see you pulled that off from, from my, um, website and- … I think that really, that brings me back to some of my earlier works. And I think, you know, it’s funny, I, like, I should maybe update that ’cause I think whereas before when I, you know, you mentioned my, my earliest, earliest work Fragments, um, I do feel there was such a…

Yeah, maybe that, that was language I used to, to kind of convey, um, the work that that was, that, that piece was so much about and the investment I put in, in, in building that work and, and relationship with my mom and, um, her experiences of, of residential school. Whereas now I, I still work with the gut. I don’t feel actually that, that sense of, of hollowing, rather agency.

Like, I feel like guttural work is so, um, like, vital and important. Um, you mentioned Jeannette Eto-wish, and, um, that was a lot of the work when we were in development of creating, uh, my, my previous work, Gorgeous Tongue. So much of it was like- Supporting access and to like our, our, our gut, the guttural experience and, you know, and we built sort of this whole, um, you know, system around it and I think it, it became…

You know, and I, and I can speak a little bit too as, you know, with, with, um, my respected background and I think a lot of, you know, uh, contemporary artists, not all, but a lot of us have had either histories in, um, more classical Eurocentric forms, you know? So my ba- you know, my early years were in ballet and it, it so, um, does not support that kind of instinctual agency as an artist, right?

It’s, it’s much more about creating these, um, you know, valued aesthetic forms that for me are, uh, very, yeah, colonial-driven and, and so returning back to this, um, more, you know, and maybe for some, like having like gut instinct is such a, um, obvious thing, but when you’ve had training in these forms and maybe lost a little bit of, of that connection, um, in performance work, in, um, dance because of those systems, um, there’s something quite liberating going back to it.

And so that, that too is so foundational in my work, you know? Um, that the collaborators and artists I’m working with, it’s, it, a lot of what’s driving the work is, um, yeah, their, their guttural instincts, you know? Like I can create an atmosphere, um, and offer, um, you know, my, my… I, I think of my work as like a, a living canvas, a moving canvas, um, that’s quite art visual- like visual art.

Um, you know, and I, I, I’ll often bring materiality into the room and, um, but that practice of building a rapport and relations with material, that has to come within the artist’s body. It’s not something I can impose with an aesthetic. Um, I mean, I could, but that’s not my choice. My choice is that I want, I want, you know, I, I’ll give the like direction or sometimes it’s like- Clarity of, um, you know, I’ll, I’ll see something…

I’m just thinking now, one of the artists, Marcus, I’ll see him gesture towards something, and it’ll be like a quick image that flashes, and I’ll say, “Well, I wanna see more of that,” like live in that moment. And again, I’ll, you know, pull back that, like, notion of duration. I’ll be like, “I wanna see that much longer.”

And so that, that’s sort of where I become a bit more in that directing of, um, yeah, those time-based practice. Um, and, and I think giving, giving value to those present moments that, um, yeah, maybe through the body can, can be quick, um, quick and moving landscapes. And, and sometimes there is that in my work, and then other times I’ll, I’ll really, yeah, desire to have sculptural landscapes live longer and be, um, embodied and activated, um, so that there’s m- time also for the public and outside to, to resonate with it.

Gabrielle Martin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Lara Kramer: Just that’s such a mouthful. 

Gabrielle Martin: Yeah. No, but I just- … wanted to kind of touch back on that gut connection, which I think is so… That is- One of the reasons your work is so compelling, ’cause that’s so key to the authenticity that the audience feels, um- Yeah … in the work, and the liveness. Um, you were talking about working with this group of artists.

Um, and, you know, you always have collaborators on your projects. Um, you said the dramaturgy of this work relies on connection to land, interrelationality, and horizontality. Mm-hmm. And how do those ideas manifest in the rehearsal process with your collaborators, so the dance artists, your lighting designer, your mother?

Lara Kramer: Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, we are, um, all coming from different nations and territories and different experiences. We all, we all have very different entry points into the arts and as, as creators, as storytellers. And so yeah, as, I mean, you mentioned the authenticity, um, in my work, and that, that I think for me is so, um, it, it’s so important that each artist, um, how, how they’re even, um, like how we’re even sharing space, for number one in the work, but then also how they navigate throughout it really has to be, um, authentic to their, their bodies and, and to their, to their lived experience.

And so yeah, that, that anchor of that guttural connection, I think is what allows the agency for, for those expressions to come out, you know? It’s like their, their uniqueness of their gesturing or way of relating, uh, to each other, to space, to their bodies, to even like, um, yeah, I’m just even thinking moments where it, it’s more sculpturally embodied, and there’s like a level of, um, like a stillness.

It, it’s, it’s gonna be so informed by their whole selves, you know? So- 

Gabrielle Martin: And then the relationships are real in space. 

Lara Kramer: Yeah. Well, yeah, exactly. Yeah. There, there’s a deep trust and a deep, I think, grounding, um, feeling within the working, uh, group, uh, of collaborators. Um, and just, yeah, just such emphasis on, um, yeah, bringing their whole selves.

And so in a lot of ways it’s the, the art practice and the journey together, um- And some of it I can say it demands a lot because, you know, when, when you’ve, uh, beared witness to my work and you’re saying you see that sort of, kinda guttural authenticity, um, it’s also demanding. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s spiritually, physically, emotionally, um, it, it, it’s, it’s demanding.

But the… It’s also, you know, a lot of, um, the experience is also that it’s quite also liberating, right? It’s, there, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a freedom in that as well of, um, that I’m not, I’m not imposing, like, um, like the, the storytelling and the multi- I wanna say there’s like a multiplicity of storytelling that comes out.

Like, there’s yes, the scope of, um, like what is the arc or the, the visioning of how the threads of this work come together. Um, but within that, there’s such individual A multitude of storytelling that unfolds, you know? 

Gabrielle Martin: And this really ties into my next question, which was, you know, knowing that this is your first ensemble creation over a decade of solo and duet work- Yeah

uh, what compelled you to, to make this leap in scale and collaboration, and what have you been discovering artistically, personally through working with this, uh, incredible group of indigenous artists? 

Lara Kramer: Yeah. I, um, so I think what compelled me was… I mean, I was really, it, it, I was given an opportunity at one moment to, um, sort of have, uh, I wanna say it feels like the opportunity that was quite carte blanche.

Um, so through FTA’s Respiration program that they had in the pandemic, um, there was an offering of support, and I, I was like, “Well, you know, it’s been a while since I’ve been…” I think I had just such a, a, a thirst and drive to connect with, um, artists, and so I brought together, uh, a group of five artists and really for a week.

And I, I, I… My approach was sort of like, let’s treat this as a creative laboratory and, um, you know, an opportunity for exchange and to see if my practice at all resonates with them and vice versa. And, and it was wild, like, what developed in just a week with no, um, you know… I, I really started at that moment with, like, the, the seed of the ideas minodae and, like, let’s be in dialogue about that and what, what is it, listening to the heart.

And, and I think out of that, it felt like so much imploded, and I was like, “Oh, I see a group work. I see a solo. I see a possible duet.” And you know, and it’s just I, I did so much creative writing also during, um, that period of time. I had poetry. And so yeah, actually, that, that title, Remember That Time We Met in the Future, is…

It’s a line of a poem that came from the, that blank- the blanket project I think you’ve maybe seen that I, I, I did with my mother. Um, and so it just, it just stuck, and I think from there, I, I, I really remember, um- Kind of showing up very enthusiastically one day, speaking to, to Martine and, and, um, Jesse of FTA and, and really just sharing with them I had this creative impulse, like, I, this fire that I, I wanted to create this, this larger work.

And, um, you know, it’s been, it’s been a number of years i- it feels in the making of, of getting, um, yeah, just aligning things with not just the creative energy and, and, and team, but the resources. And so yeah, it’s, it’s very exciting to, to arrive in this moment. 

Gabrielle Martin: I am so… I get chills just hearing you talk about it.

Um- Yeah … and I, and I remember also how energized I was from being in the room for the work in progress, so I am- Mm … I’m really thrilled and looking forward to, uh, January 2026, um, to welcome you and your collaborators to the festival. Yeah. Yeah. 

Lara Kramer: Yeah. Wonderful. Thank you so much.