Episode 74 – Human Costs (Invisibles)

Gabrielle Martin: Hello and welcome to Push Play, a Push Festival podcast featuring conversations with artists who are pushing boundaries and playing with form. I’m Gabrielle Martin, Push’s artistic director, and in today’s special episode, Am Johal, executive artistic director of Indian Summer Festival, sits down in conversation with Rakesh Sukesh.

Rakesh is artist in residence hosted by Indian Summer Festival and Push for the development of his latest work, Invisibles, which will be presented free to the public during the Push Festival January 26th, 2026. For context, our relationship with Rakesh goes back to 2024 when we co-presented Because I Love the Diversity: This Micro-Attitude, We All Have It.

And my relationship with Rakesh goes back even further to taking his dance class at a festival in Spain in 2018. But back to 2026, Invisibles confronts the brutal realities of the Kafala system, which has enabled modern slavery across parts of the Middle East. Drawing from his own family’s history, Rakesh interlaces visceral movement, stark statistics, and documentary theater to reveal the human cost of economic migration and ask urgent questions about whose lives and suffering we choose to value.

Invisibles weaves ritual dance and funeral song from the Tamil Nadu region in India into a powerful meditation on grief, dignity, and remembrance. Over 25 years, Rakesh has captivated audiences worldwide as a performer, choreographer, teacher, and producer. His journey began in Bollywood dance and South Indian cinema before evolving toward contemporary movement infused with his family’s lineage of yoga and embodied disciplines such as Kalaripayattu and other Indian dance forms.

His international career has cultivated a language of physicality that bridges precision and spiritual depth. Am Johal is executive artistic director of the Indian Summer Festival. He’s also author of Ecological Metapolitics, Baidya and the Anthropocene, and is co-author of several books, including Global Warming and the Sweetness of Life: A Tar Sands Tale.

He is also the chair of the Vancouver International Film Festival and vice chair of Greenpeace Canada. Here is Am’s conversation with Rakesh.

Am Johal: Hello, welcome to our wonderful, uh, podcast. I’m, uh, guest hosting, uh, this week on behalf of Push. Uh, my name is Am Johal. I’m executive artistic director of the Indian Summer Festival, who’s a partner, uh, with Push and, uh, a piece that Rakesh, uh, Sukesh will be, uh, involved with at the Push Festival in, uh, 20, uh, 26.

Uh, uh, I’m currently, uh, here in Vancouver on the territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh, uh, peoples. Uh, welcome, Rakesh. 

Rakesh Sukesh: Thank you. Thanks for the invitation. I’m happy to be here. 

Am Johal: Yeah. Wondering if we can begin with you introducing, uh, yourself, uh, a little bit. 

Rakesh Sukesh: Yes. Um, so yes, my name is Rakesh Sukesh.

Um, I’m, I was born in Kerala, which is a South India, um, which is in South India. Then, then I was grew up, uh, up until age of 12, uh, in Chennai, which is Tamil Nadu, which is another state in, in India. And then I moved back to Kerala when I was a teenager. I was there until like, uh, 18, 19, then I moved to Bangalore where I started my professional dance career.

Uh, was there for eight years, then I moved to Delhi for a couple of years to, to, to pursue professional dance world, contemporary dance world. And, uh, then curiosity to, you know, learn more and, um, uh, understand this contemporary dance world, I decided to move to Europe, and the first place I’ve lived was in Switzerland for four years in Zurich.

And then, um, uh, now since the last eight years, I’m based in Brussels. So that’s my, um, uh, travel parkour. 

Am Johal: Yeah. Uh, wondering, uh, so you, you began in, in Bollywood dance and later shef- shifted into, uh, contemporary movement. I’m wondering if you can speak about sort of, um, the trajectory and different trans- transitions you’ve made in, uh, your, your dance and artistic practices.

Rakesh Sukesh: Yes. Um, well, dance, um, I, I took up, uh, Bollywood dance when I was 15 or 16, and, uh, funny enough, my parents forced me to do it. And although I was quite in- interested into it, but I had problem with confidence because of certain situation with family and economical situation and, and also some issues that I faced as a teenager.

It affected my, um, myself, my confidence level. So they kind of told me to go and do Bollywood dance, and I was very shy, very nervous to even to think of pursuing it. So when I went there, I, I discovered the joy, the fun, uh, aspects of it, and also the fact that I had to go and perform in front of people.

And so it also opened my body, opened my confidence, and, um, my social anxiety started to disappear. So that was a way for me to start, um, uh, sensing the power of dance just as a broader spectrum. And then later, you know, it’s one of the things that you would do if you’re into Bollywood dance is, of course, you would perform on stage where you can make quite decent money and income.

I still have friends in India who lives out of that, and they have quite a good, good, uh, life with it. But or you can also go to film industry, which I tried. I went and worked in some South Indian films, and somehow when I entered into there, you know, you have this perception of a, a fairy, fairy tale world.

This cinema is like, um, sort of illusion. But then when you go and you see what happens behind the scenes was not Was not, I was not prepared to, to see that. And there’s a lot of hierarchy, there’s a lot of abuse, there’s a lot of, um, physical and pow- power abuse. And, and also I loved dancing, and it gave me so much joy.

But if you go there into f- um, into film industry as a background dancer, there is certain status for you which is not so good. Mm. And for me it was very confusing because I felt commit- com- completely committed to this. And at the same time, yeah, these treatments, I was kind of disturbed by it a bit. Mm.

And it disappointed me. And then also after a while, when I start spending some years, when I went on stage, it was great to dance to this music. It felt, you know, joyful, and it’s … I’m very happy to share that joy to the people. But at the same time, I was missing my authenticity after a while in it. And so I was kind of lost.

I didn’t know what to do with it. I was not really called by classical dances so much because my family is not really, let’s say, um, deeply into art or, or dance per se. Although my– Later I figured out my father’s father was an actor and a singer, which was hidden from my… from me for many years because we don’t talk about his life.

Um, and, um, so for me it was like I thought maybe that would be the end. So I decided to do automobile engineering, which was nothing to do with dance, and I st- I, you know, study about cars and engine. But somehow I stumbled upon, um, a, a dance company that was kind of new in B- in Bangalore, and it was kind of one of the biggest contemporary dance company that was in India.

And so I saw a picture of, uh, you know, these contemporary dance figures, and I was very confused and didn’t understand what this is. It looked very new and very refreshing. So I did an audition, and I got chosen, and they gave me, uh, s- six to one year of training there. And there, then I start to work with that company for performances and to teach, and then I start to travel to Europe.

That’s when, when my curiosity to y- to study more contemporary dance styles became, uh, evident when I start to go abroad. So that kind of brought me more curiosity. So once I stopped this company in 2009, then I went and did an apprenticeship program under Katie Duck. She, she’s based in, um, Amsterdam, whom works with Instant Composition, and she’s considered to be one of the legend of, uh, this, uh, genre of, uh, creativity, which is that you are going and being in the moment and creating a piece of art, uh, which you have no idea what it is before or after.

It just trying to show up and listening to the space and the audience and the music and how do you craft a piece of art in that given moment, which I found it, uh, a great challenge considering coming from In Bollywood dance, which is very, very set choreo- choreography for them, for, you know, music and dance in cinema.

Plus even in contemporary dance, we were working a lot on, uh, very choreographed and set materials. And some of the later on, the basic classical dance I did, which was also like that. So for me, this instant composition was a very extreme opposite of what I used to, which I, I like this challenge. It also start opening my perspective towards what dance could be and its possibility.

So yeah, I, then I also studied under somebody called David Zambrano, who’s also works with, um, uh, instant composition and also improvisation and developing different ways of creating movements, uh, again and again, how to keep inno- innovating and inventing. That is methodology which was also one of the big learning, uh, learning process for me.

Am Johal: Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, you’ve had, uh, you’ve mentioned a few of the, the influences you’ve had from teachers, artists, t- um, traditions, and your work, uh, draws from yoga, contemporary dance, um, and other traditions. And I’m wondering if you could just speak a little bit to these things that you weave into your, um- Yeah

current practices. 

Rakesh Sukesh: Yes, absolutely. Um- For me, yoga, the, the, the asana, uh, aspects of yoga came later because of the… my body was quite tight, quite tense, because in Bollywood dance you, you hold a lot of muscles. It’s very, um, muscle-based work. So I started purely to, to kind of, you know, become more flexible and, and work on alignment.

So I studied, uh, Iyengar Yoga for four years, um, under someone called Arun B- based in Bangalore, who’s a direct, direct disciple of Iyengar. Um, and then later I went into Hatha yoga practice where I started the teachers training and, um, kind of looking at yo- yogic principles from all different aspects of it.

And this curiosity came because after a while when I started do more research into my own dance, dance style and questioning what is, what is creation, what, what is it I want to speak about, what is it I w- curious about. So when I left India, um, I was kind of fascinated by all these new ways of creating, but at the same time I l- I lacked the depth of certain traditions that I come from.

Like if you speak ab- speak about yogic philosophies or principles or yogis, they talk about human potential in, in, in a way that is considered to be superhero, you know, and where you can evolve into. So these kind of, uh, uh, topics excited me, so I decided to kind of go more into studying, uh, uh, yoga, and I did teachers training.

And then also my family somehow being busy with it, but nothing was imposed onto me. And I later I realized, wow, it, it, it was there all along. Um, my father’s side, um, apparently my ancestors were- they were really deeply practiced yogis. And even my mom and da- dad are yogis in a way. They do Karma yoga, Bhakti yoga, Jnana yoga.

They’ve been always following that. And at home, we always discuss about life and different topics that even, you know, yogic philosophies talks about. We always discuss on these topics. So somehow it’s been always there. It’s just that through dance the- it got unlocked, and I’ve been called back into this route.

So that’s one of the primary essence of my, my, my teaching methodology or even, even when I create a piece of art. It’s, it’s always in back of my head, this, this thinking. And then also I did an Indian martial art. It’s called, uh, Kalaripayattu Which considered to be one of the ancient martial art. In some says it’s almost 2,000, some says almost 3,000 years old for- form.

So as part of the dance training, we were training in the physical aspect, the physical preparation aspect of this martial art, which is this martial art has, like, four blocks. The first block is the physical preparation, and so I was specializing in that, so that was also, um, somehow addressing my technique, my dance technique, the way I would move or my- the way my body’s been built also f- uh, this as a base.

So these two are the, my primary source that I carry from my roots. However, when I’m in the studio, I, I’m trying to integrate also the knowledge that I perceive through other teachers during my travels and trying to create a research practice, a teaching methodology that has all these elements together inside.

Am Johal: I’m wondering, uh, thank you so much for, for, for sharing that. There’s so much that goes into, um, developing an artistic, uh, practice, so much of which is also personal and based on your own, um, experiences. You’ve also, as you mentioned, um, earlier, lived and worked across, uh, many countries, different parts of India.

You mentioned Switzerland, and now being based in Belgium, but really doing your work, um, globally, and I’m wondering, um, how you can, um, how do you situate your work in this sort of, uh, global world and all the different things that go into this work, and particularly when you move, uh, these practices, uh, based in the South Asian subcontinent into a global context and how your work gets read in different ways depending on where you’re performing it as, as well?

Rakesh Sukesh: Yeah. Um, well, it, it is an ongoing, um, obser- I mean, study that I have to do in order for me to- Uh, even speaking from, let’s say, when I started teaching first time, um, this Kalari class, the Kalari martial art class in Europe, people said, “Wow, this is very new.” And for the European, um, you know, dance lovers or professionals, and whereas it’s almost 2,000 years old, but for them it was very new that even that a dance, um, that the dancers in India were using martial art as a base.

At that time in contemporary dance world, the martial art information was not so much, um, involved yet. And so it was kind of a fascinat- fascination for people. There was a lot of question on like, but why we have to do martial art in a dance space? So there was a lot of, uh, questions along that way. Then I start to like kind of research on, okay, what is a dancer body, and how can I take this martial art, which is, has a very specific intention, right?

If you, if you look at martial art context, at least in the past, where one is trained to, uh, surpass the fear of death and trained to, um, able to be absolute ready to the peak of its potential, while at the same time being calm to understand the environment, to react to the environment that doesn’t hurt themself or to the fellow, fellow tribe men, but at the same time to be ready to, you know, deal with this, um, obstacles that throws at.

So it’s a very different kind of a preparation of mind and the body. And of course, when I draw that, um, the knowledge from that, let’s say, uh, this space into dance space is very different. Dance space is, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s for creating art or telling a story or a beauty. And so I had to kind of find my way, how do I create this form that is suited for this environment.

So there, there was already a lot of adaptation was made even when, when I started teaching. For example, in India, when you start a traditional class, you have a ritual that you do for your teacher, and you acknowledge the teachers, the ancestors, where the knowledge come– it’s a– know-knowledge comes from. So it’s a very particular and, and thousands of years of v-old ways of passing information.

And here I am, I’m in, I’m in a Western context, so I cannot expect the community to follow that tradition. And, and hence, at the same time, how can I also not disrespect what I learned from? So I started by changing the title of the work. It also became a trigger for me to research this, these forms. And so I– hence, I called it Payat in Transit, which is that the, the word payat comes from Kalari Payat, uh, which means movement or, or exercise that is in transit, that is constantly moving or going somewhere.

So yeah, with this discussion in the room, teaching to, to com- different communities in different part of Europe, it’s always influenced the form, and also it created curiosity for, for the, the, the European, uh, uh, dance world. Whereas, like, it was a moment where still they were with a lot with ballet, which is a lot about going away from the floor, and whereas Kalari is actually coming back to the ground.

So there is this very opposing ways of approaching movement. So in that sense, yes, it is an ongoing adaptation. Even now, for example, after COVID, there’s a very different way of, um, um, uh, knowledge is being perceived in the studio versus knowledge is being given into the studio. So again, there is a, a calling to readaptation of how information should be perceived and given in this contemporary context.

So I feel like it’s an ongoing thing that’s constantly changing based on where it is in the lo- in part of the world, plus which time of the period also. 

Am Johal: Uh, I, I wanna speak about your other work, um, in a little bit, but maybe we can start. You’re going to be, um, involved with the Push Festival in, in 2026.

And I’m wondering if you can speak a little bit to, um, uh, this work that you’ll be, uh, that you’ll be doing here. 

Rakesh Sukesh: Yes. Um- Well, I call this project as Invisibles. At least that’s the, that’s the working title at the moment. And, uh, we will see, because this is gonna be the first official residency of this project where we will be working for two weeks, uh, almost two weeks at Kalch, uh, and at The Post, and which is conducted, organized, curated by Push and Summer Dance Festival.

So this work is, um, triggered and it’s– I realize it’s been sitting in me, this topic, since last, if not wrong, more than 20 years. Um, it’s a sort of- Um, uh, yeah, I don’t wanna call it trauma, but it’s a, it’s a baggage that I’m carrying. Um, it’s from this topic of Kafala system, um, which is a kind of a practice that has been happening in Middle Eastern countries over several decades.

And, um, which pra- which, which this practice allows an employer, um, have the power to take out the passport of, uh, a worker that comes to work under them in Middle Eastern countries. 

Am Johal: Mm. 

Rakesh Sukesh: And my father went to work, um, in Saudi. I was a very little child. I was 10 or something. And I remember, like, the whole family was…

You know, we were– we didn’t have so much money, so we were all– my mom was selling all the gold, and everything was sold to buy the ticket and pay the sponsor and, and get him to Saudi. And then after a while, there was no money coming for almost two years from him. And now and then we were getting some little pocket money, sort of money coming from him, but there’s nothing was coming.

And, and the reason was that the, the boss was not paying him the salary that he was supposed to get paid, but he was putting him to work. And once, once you’re in a Kafala system is that the, the boss has the power to decide when you can go back home, when you can have your passport back, um, or you, you have no freedom to work with anybody else, but you have to just stay with this person.

And so the boss kept telling him that, uh, he would get paid at the end of the contract after two years. Meanwhile, of course, like, we were not prepared for it, so my m-mom was super poor. We were super poor. We didn’t have any money. We were– My mom was literally b-begging on the street to survive, and it was a very difficult period.

And after that, uh, after two years, um, my father came back without any money. They didn’t pay him anything. They just gave him the passport and made him sign this document, which was in Arabic. And, uh, and then they said, “Okay, you have to leave now.” And it kind of like– It was a very hard time for us in, in, in our family.

Plus, when my father came back, he was, he was not really okay since then. He was kind of, like, disturbed by the whole experience there and, and also the fact that he came back as a failure. It, it kind of, like, destroyed his, his, h-him. And so we are carrying that. Along with that- Um, in Kerala, um, in during ’70s, ’80s, and ’90s, there is a lot of people migrated to Middle Eastern country.

There was a big migration happened, and many left without any p- papers. They would go by ship. They would di- they would dive inside the ocean. When they see the land, they swim across. They try to find a life. So we hear a lot of stories of how people go there and struggle. Some succeed. Some are with very good boss, and they have a great life, and they, they have had families becoming wealthy and a good life, but some are not.

So it’s like an ongoing thing that is going on since many decades. So, and, and especially now during Qatar World Cup I saw this tra- tragedy of almost six and a half thousand people died building these football grounds for the Qatar World Cup. And, and at the same time, the, the event still continued happening.

A lot of people enjoy the football game, and for me it kind of kept me disturbed. So I felt like, okay, I want to kind of, kind of talk about this topic, kind of discuss about this topic, and, and, and try to see what can I do as an artist and, and, um, yeah, what is that I wanna put across out there with this topic.

So that’s where I was in, and then I got the support, um, yeah, to s- to start this creation. 

Am Johal: Can you speak a, a little bit then the formation of this work itself and, and what you’ll be- Yeah … presenting at, at Push? 

Rakesh Sukesh: So I’m working with three other col- uh, collaborators. Um, two of them I already worked with, uh, for my previous piece, which was created also at Push.

One is Marcus Yusuf, who’s gonna be working with me, uh, from a text and, and, um, theatrical dramaturgy, I would say. And Alessia Luna Weiss, who’s gonna be my choreographic assistant and movement dramaturg. And also I will be working with S- Shammi Chan, who’s gonna work with visuals mainly. We are gonna create, um, a multimedia project.

So that’s the team that I have. At the moment, the creative, the creative beginning we have is that, um, kind of going back to the place that I grew up, which is Tamil Nadu. And in Tamil Nadu, we have this tradition, and especially if you come from a lower caste, it’s practiced much more, where when there is somebody pass away, when there is somebody, um, if there’s somebody pass away at home, there is this tradition where the family members, the neighbors, the community people, um, they dance.

And they dance keeping the body at home, and they dance around the body. They dance while they send this body to the cremation, uh, ground. So this dance consider- it’s called Savukattu, which is sort of like a folklore culture. It’s, uh, hundreds of years of practice, which believe that, like, they are blessing the spirits that has passed away to have a better afterlife.

And, and also in this context, there is also a certain singing, it’s called Oppari, which is also folklore singing, where people come home while there is still the person who passed away at home. Um, they come, they sing about this person. They sing about the life they had and, uh, what they went through. And so these are rituals that is con- they do it here now so that the spirit can have a better life.

And for me, in, in Invisibles, what I would like to research and, and look for is that first is to talk about this topic and how this problem is going on since decades, and it’s kind of a modern slavery that is happening in front of our eyes and how we can look at it. Like, what is it we can do about it?

It’s, uh, kind of a questions that I want to tackle into. Meanwhile, the performance are also created as a ritual, a contemporary dance performance ritual that could be a sort of an homage or, or a sort of, uh, hoping for a prayer to those spirits that has been suffered over decades and, and still are suffering.

So that’s kind of the premises I want to begin this project from, and again, working with all my collaborators, we are gonna try to identify what is that we are gonna do in this residency. 

Am Johal: Well, this is really, uh, exciting that you’re gonna be coming here, um, so, um, shortly, and, uh, audiences here in Vancouver are gonna be able to engage, uh, with the work.

You’re working with some wonderful people here in, in Vancouver, uh, Sammy, of course, a graduate of SFU’s School for, for Contemporary Arts. Wondering if you could, um, Rakesh, share with us, you know, any other, um, work that you have in progress, or maybe a broader question would be, you know, what are the kinds of questions you’re struggling with in art- as an artist as you’re making, conceiving, and thinking of, uh, new work in this, you know, very troubled time in the world?

Rakesh Sukesh: Yeah. Um, yeah, and I, I, I think, like, as a creator, for some reason, for me, I- it’s maybe the, the parkour of my life, like coming from sort of economically poor background and from certain kind of class in India, where you, you always gr- grow up in a s- with a certain body language. You always feel there is something up there over you that is controlling you, oppressing you, or telling you you’re not welcome here or you’re welcome here.

So it’s something that I always grew up and, and it’s kind of continues even now, like in, in the world that I’m living in. Although This, this, uh, life of art, artist gives me another sort of, um, um, uh, appearance and persona, but still yet I’m confronted with these, these realities that is going on a- around all of us.

And so hence my work is always kind of a questioning the things that I feel unfair around me or towards me or towards somebody else is where my, my, my beginning of my creation starts. So in this regard of Invisibles, I always question in 2025, especially in some part of the world, when there’s so much wealth exist, why still there is slavery?

And like why, like what is that we lack as a human being? So it’s like these kind of questions calls me, and meanwhile, I’m also creating, um, co-creating a duet with my collaborator, Alessia. We just did one residency, and the project is called Diamonds and Demons, and which is kind of going into these two parts that we all have, that we are a diamond in precious and shining and beautiful, and at the same time, we are also could be a demon based on how we are, who we are, and based on the circumstances.

There are certain aspects shines from us, and we kind of delving into this topic and also looking at it from like a kind of a global problem that is kind of, uh, going on in every part of the world, which is about drugs and addiction. So this project is about addiction as the, as at the core and, and also drugs, how it’s nowadays present in so many, uh, part of the world in t- many different ways.

And we are also looking at it like how drug also been used as a tool to, to colonize and to conquer nations in the past, and how that same trait somehow is still going on in different part of the world. So that’s a topic that we are diving into. So that’s, uh, another project that I’m currently working on.

Am Johal: Yeah, no, I think this is, this is great. Well, thank you for, for joining us, uh, on the Push, uh, podcast, and, uh, really look forward to meeting you in, in person in not too long from now, so… 

Rakesh Sukesh: Uh, thank you for this invitation, and I’m really looking forward to, to be there. And also thank you for all your support.

Cannot wait to be there and meet you also in person.